Pan Peninsula buyers "don't know which way to turn"

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Pan Peninsula buyers admit they "don't know which way to turn" as they strive to pay for their homes.

Ballymore has advised purchasers that speaking about their plight may be "counterproductive" to their bid for finance, creating a "negative hue" around the luxury Millharbour development.

But would-be owners claim they have been unable to reach the company for several weeks to discuss a solution as completion dates loom.

Apartments in Pan Peninsula were snapped up off-plan over two years ago by buyers wooed by facilities such as a spa, gym, private cinema and cocktail lounge.

Units cost between a quarter of a million for a studio to £12million for a penthouse at the time, but The Wharf reported on March 19 that the property downturn had wiped between 10 and 30 per cent off the value of units, resulting in the withdrawal or alteration of many mortgage offers.

Ballymore has pledged to "assess each individual case" to determine the scale of problems. But it reserved the right to "sue for any losses suffered" in a letter to residents in February, saying contracts were "not exchanged on a subject to mortgage basis". Some have already forfeited their deposits and face legal action for missed payments.

Nearly half the 762 units are now part of the Pan Peninsula Buyers Association, which hopes to get Ballymore to the table to discuss a solution.

However, Ballymore's group director for strategy and communications Paul Keogh told The Wharf this week that buyers would not benefit from being PPBA members or contacting the press.

He said: "There is little advantage in buyers being members of Pan Peninsula Buyers Association as everyone's individual financial circumstances are different.

"Some members are large property investors, others are one-off property investors and their motivations for being involved are different.

"Ballymore has to assess each individual case and take a view as to that client's level of difficulty in being able to complete their legal obligations to Ballymore.

"I do not think they are benefiting by constantly approaching the media.

"In fact, it may be counterproductive to be constantly going to the media about Pan Peninsula as it creates a negative hue around what is undoubtedly the best place in London to live at the moment.

"It will all hamper their efforts to get finance. My advice is to talk to Ballymore individually, outlining their individual financial difficulties and we will listen and advise accordingly."

Mr Keogh again referred all buyer concerns to new group sales and marketing director Michael Meanley, who would be "handling each case one by one". He also added that full-time staff based at Pan Peninsula would be "available to help with individual queries".

However, the chairman of the PPBA, who asked not to be named, confirmed that many had been unable to get hold of Mr Meanley since his name was first mentioned in The Wharf three weeks ago.

He also claimed that only around 20 per cent of buyers who had already been served with completion notices had done so.

He said: "We've tried contacting them on several occasions and have had no responses, or we've been told we'll get a call back and nothing's happened.

"At this moment in time, there are quite a few people that are not in a position to complete.
"People don't know which way to turn. We're all professionals, and we're not being dealt with in a professional manner."

Are you having similar problems at Pan Peninsula? Contact John Hill at The Wharf at john.hill@wharf.co.uk or the Pan Peninsula Buyers Association at panpeninsula.org

55 Comments

Anonymous said:

The best place to live in London?!?

Is Ballymore having a laugh. I walked round by Millharbour/South Quay last night and it was like a ghost town. Closed shops and retail units, no restaurants or bars. Down at Canary Riverside and at West India Quay there was a lot of life - restaurants/bars people!

Also, not all residents at Pan Peninsula will have access to the cocktail lounge etc. It is for people living above level 35 or tehre abouts. All false advertising!

Ballymore were greedy. They are still building hundreds more flats around Pan Peninsula which will drive teh value in that area down even more. Where are the buyers and tenants going to come from? Who would want to live in a 650sqft 2 bed apartment?! It would be like living in a stack of rabbit hutches.

Andy@thewharf said:

I think it id outrageous that Ballymore are now trying to threaten their customers.

Who are they to use bullyboy tactics? Why shouldn't people go to the press? Obviously Ballymore don't want their reputation tarnished but that is already done.

They borrowed too much from their cronies in the Irish banks and they were greedy with their pricing. Nobody should buy from Ballymore. Let them sink.

I looked in at the Management Suite yesterday and there was nobody there. Who is managing the building? I noticed the designer lights on the outside are broken already. Anyone in the management suite to organise to sort that out? It looks a bit cheap to have broken lights already.

I also noticed that there is a flood of flats for sale with King Sturge and now other agents. 50-60 at last count and more to come (I have a friend who works for one of the big wharf agents). They advise clients to go for Canary Riverside or 1 West India Quay which are in better locations with good local facilities (crossrail outside 1 West India Quay has started), better sizes (well over 1000sqft 2 beds compared with 650-800 at Pan Peninsula) and with only a few flats for sale. The prices are also around £500-£600 per square foot at Riverside and 1 West India Quay. Sounds like good advice.

Anonymous said:

Ballymore don't know the damage they're causing to their reputation by appearing to ignore their customers.

Do they think after being treated this way that these customers will ever want to deal with them again? No repeat custom.

Do they think that the friends, relatives and readers of thse people's experiences on here will ever forget the name Ballymore? Having read all this, I can safely say that the name is emblazoned across my mind to avoid them no matter how spectacular the development. This is surely a P.R nightmare for them.

JC said:

I agree with the PP board if the current investors keep moaning they cannot afford to complete. No bank in their right mind is going to give mortgages of anything meaningful on this development.
PPBA thinks it can form a committee to get the builder to knock off 10-20% of the purchase price so they can breathe a sigh of relief they haven’t lost anything on this investment. That’s absolute rubbish. They knew what they were signing when they bought the apartments.
Its tough it’s gone down it value. That’s life a lot of people are in a tight situation at the moment.
Those who cannot complete should lose their deposits and any losses Ballymore has sustains.

Also with regards to this being the best place to live. What a joke... If only I could post a picture up of this area. Its is completely dead. No one in there right mind would want to live here.

Anonymous said:

JC, it seems you are not aware of the full facts.

Not all purchasers or even members of PPBA are investors. There are those of us, a large number, who have purchased to live in there. Ballymore are simply trying to make it seem as though this is being pushed by investors.

The PPBA is not simply looking for price cuts. It wants to get round the table with Ballymore to discuss ways forward for its members. There are various options that can be discussed, but Ballymore do not want to.

They say they only want to deal with individuals, yet whenever I have approached them individually they have not wanted to know. This Special Department they seem very proud of simply does not exist.

On top of this, I am disgusted with their attitude and threats in the press about being a member of PPBA is to our detriment. They want to stifle free speech.

Now, take my own example. I am not an investor. I purchased in Pan Peninsula to live there. I am a member of PPBA. I am unable to complete. I have put my 20% deposit down, but then my own current property that I live in I am unable to sell. So many purchasers of my place pulled out over the past year and I can only put this down to the economic conditions.

So I am stuck. I can not even walk away from the PP purchase by forfeiting my deposit because Ballymore are threatening to sue me for the remainder.

Note that it is not a matter of simply walking away, Ballymore are keeping the deposits and taking non-completion purchasers to court for the whole amount.

Is this good practice? Is this in the interest of everyone concerned? One thing I definitely know from all of this. I will NEVER deal with or buy from Ballymore again and neither will any of the contacts and relatives and friends I know. They have all heard too many bad things about Ballymore from my experiences that they will be staying away.

A shame, but unless Ballymore change their attitude and wish to conduct business in a business-like manner, rather than a harsh bullying manner, then they only have themselves to blame.

Anonymous said:

I dont understand. How is this different from any other off plan you might have bought??

At the end of the day you took a gamble and it didnt pay off.

There is nothing wrong with the builder then are good quality builders. Don't shift your problems onto the developer.

Time for you to loose your deposit and let someone else have it, who can afford it.

BTW you will be charged interest on late payments also. I suggest you negotiate to minimize your losess.

Anonymous said:

To the poster above my comment here - did you not read the comments in full?

I am not sure how much clearer this can be made...

1) IT IS NOT A SIMPLE CASE OF JUST LOSING THE DEPOSIT

and

2) BALLYMORE ARE KEEPING THE DEPOSIT BUT ALSO SUING FOR THE REMAINDER - HENCE ONE CAN NOT SIMPLY CUT LOSSES AND WALK AWAY FROM THIS

and

3) BALLYMORE ARE ***NOT*** NEGOTIATING OR DISCUSSING ANYTHING ABOUT THIS WITH PURCHASERS - HENCE THE PROBLEMS AND HIGHLIGHTING THIS IN THE PRESS

In any business there is room for negotiation so that both parties can agree and conduct the business. Ballymore are simply not wanting to discuss the matter and are preferring to take the purchasers to court.

If only they would talk, discuss, etc. I have called them day in and day out to discuss the issues, yet they are not interested - either I leave a message or someone will call me back but I never get any calls returned. Does this show them as a decent company to deal with?

Anonymous said:

I disagree with what you are saying.

Ballymore are a professional company with established properties around CW.

Ballymore will sue you for the losses they incure. So it they sell your flat for less you will have to put up the difference.
Which makes sense.

If you think you are being mistreated why dont you let your solicitor write them a letter, they will respond to that.

But please give up this self pity that you are being harshly treated just because you cannot complete. Take full responsibility for the situation rather than blaming everyone else.

Anonymous said:

Sigh!

You really do not see the facts. :-(

In fact I totally disagree with what you are saying. Ballymore have shown themselves to avoid being a professional company. They certainly have established properties in CW, but you just need to look at how they got to this stage. The picture is not so clear, unfortunately.

Ballymore are not only suing for the losses incurred, tyhey are suing for the whole amount.

Are you in the same situation as me? Have you received the same letter as me? I doubt it, especially as your comments prove this.

There is no self pity here. All I am asking for is for Ballymore to even discuss things with me so that we can at least agree to disagree. However they are not even wanting to talk. My solicitor has already written to them and all they did was reply with a standard letter.

All I want is to talk to Ballymore, but no one is ever available and if I am promised a call back, no one ever does.

Does this sound like a professional company to you? I am sorry but for me, this is far from a professional company - one that has its head stuck in the sand and has no interest in customer service. One only has to listen to those who have completed about how Ballymore are refusing to complete the snags lists.


None of this instills confidence.. and I am not sure why you are so pro-Ballymore seeing as you have had nothing to do with them in Pan Peninsula.

Anonymous said:

Ballymore are suing its customers for full amount does not make sense at all unless they are valuing the apartments are zero value. I find this very hard to believe.
Normal practice is loss of deposit and any difference between the buy and sale price plus any legal costs.

Surely if it is the case you are saying above why did your did solicitor not point this out to you before you signed!

Andy@thewharf said:

I was just looking through rightmove and saw that someone (either Ballymore or an investor) is trying to off load 2 whole floors at Pan Peninsula! They are trying to sell the 17th and 18th floors for a set price.

Either Ballymore is desperate or an investor wants out quickly! The prices are going to start tumbling now.

tictak said:

This development will be the demise of alot of people. These flats are not anything near the price they sold for........
255k for a studio in the East Tower and a wopping 375k for the West Tower ... what were these so called investors thinking about .... docklands gone mad!

Anonymous said:

Yes, just saw it..

£6M for 2 completed floors. This is what you get for 1 floor. I have put estimate figures in to assertain the value:

qty price total
*4 times 2 bedroom 4 300k 1200k
*4 times 1 bedroom 4 200k 800k
*4 times studio suites 4 195k 780k
*2 times studios 2 190k 380k

Total 3.1M

Wow thats really cheap!

Anonymous said:

OMG There are 1000s of apartments for sale in E14 at the moment - and no demand :(

Has anyone seen the inside of PP apartments they look tiny and terrible. What on earth possed people to buy into this shamble.

People who bought still think they can sell for this silly price they paid.

Anonymous said:

£255K for a studio and £355 for a 1 bed is actually quite good value for a new development. The prices have dropped dramatically from what they were. What ever the footage of the apartments, the specifications in the bathrooms are excellent and very sleek (black marble and good quality taps)
What I will say though is that these apartments are not commanding the demand that they ought to simply because of the AREA they're in. It's not prime Canary Wharf and they're not on the RIVER THAMES!!

Anonymous said:

It is actually less than what you are quoting. Speak to Foxtons many sellers are eagar to off load and will take way below £299k for 1 bed.

I agree with you though it is a crap area.

Anonymous said:

I think the £6m are for either floor, not for both: "An opportunity to purchase either the 17th or 18th floor in Ballymore's fantastic Pan Peninsula development."

Andy@thewharf said:

Yes, it is 6 million per floor, the way I read it. Absolutel unrealistic. Someone trying to make a run for it but they won't get anything near that price. An estate agent from one of the big companies said values at Pan Peninsula had come down much more than the prime developments such as 1 West INdia Quay and Canary Riverside. The area is wrong fro Pan Peninsula. As to the quality fittings, anyone could do it for a few thousand pounds and remember the huge bulk discount Ballymore would get for fittings for 750 flats. So the premium price is not justified at all.

Anonymous said:

I think these are owned by the developer - Ballymore. Sometimes developers hold back some floors in a development to command greater value on completion.

Unfortunatly its turned the other way around!

suicidal said:

I have bought one of these apartments and I regret it now... I have been very shrewed with my money worked very hard from a young age and never let myself over indulge. But I followed a friend of mine who made so much money through properties and now I am paying the price. I have lost my job.. I can't sleep ... I can't see a way out.... I feel sick .. somtimes I wished that I just get run over by a car so this misery would just go away. I don't blame anyone but myself... :-(

Obsidian said:

To suicidal

Please get help with the way you're feelng. No amount of money loss is worth committing suicide over, ever. I'm sure you're not alone in how you're feeling. Have you thought about emailing the BCC or talking to them? They have some very good researchers who could highlight your plight (you wouldn't have to show your face necessarily) and whether or not you decide to go public with the whole PP fiasco, they could put you in touch with people who could help advise you emotionally and financially. I mention them because of the wealth of experience and contacts they have.

Remember that people have bounced back from far worse. There are some entrepreneurs out there who failed again and again before they became successful.

Draw up a plan and work out different scenarios with time and money being the key factors. Aim to do something towards improving the situation everyday, even if it's just a phonecall or an e-mail. The worse thing you could do is to ignore the situation. Speak to friends and family too.
Your GP might be able to give you anti-depressants, it won't change the situation but it might make you cope better with it.

One day at a time.

snrmo said:

Well, they say the right man for the right job, Are we talking about the famous Michael Meanley who used to be the managing director for St George, part of The Berkeley Group, and was sacked from St George Imperial Wharf London SW6.
Well, he will be remembered by the suffering he caused to all his victims, sorry, I mean customers.

Andy@thewharf said:

To snrmo,

THis sounds interesting. What do you know about this Meanley chap? Should the Wharf be investigating this? What happened before? Enlighten us...

Anonymous said:

Yes thats the same guy MR Michael Hard nose Meanley ........ Looks like Ballymore have recruited the right guy for the job. Ballymore reputation will now nose dive.. that is if it can get any worse.....

Why are all the developers the same ... out to screw people....

ifonlyforabackbone said:

i hope this paper will take a stand for local residents BUT i fear we will need to look to national papers like the sun/mirror maybe the bbc

Good point, ifonlyforabackbone. But where's out backbone? Whos goin to figt for us if we dont fight for ourselves. Read the story - "the chairman of the PPBA, WHO ASKED NOT TO BE NAMED, blah blah" Ballymoore must be quaking in there boots faced with such a fired up oposition. Not blaiming anyone. Im the same ;)

TinHat said:

Without the help of the media, sadly I don't think that anyone will get that far. No offence to the tabloid papers but if buyers want to at least reach a compromise with this builder then they'll need a crack team that are very savvy, with years of experience and legal advisors to boot. I don't think a newspaper would have that strength. Solicitors will obviously be hugely expensive. That's where the tv comes in. It has the biggest reach, maximum impact and a legal team to guide, one would imagine. The BBC is least likely to edit for effect and the true voice will be heard. Once it's been broadcast, it will live on. Someone will Youtube it and it'll be watched again and again over the internet.
Isn't it all this getting a bit silly now though? Buyers are locked into this, there's no escape but Ballymore need to alter the terms and conditions to enable them to at least try to pay! Shoudn't they also be challenging the surveyors that downvalued it and sending it their own surveyors who originally valued it if they're so confident of its worth? What about all their forecasts about x number of workers moving to the island by 201x? If they believe that once the economy recovers, it will be wonderful, they should shouting it out from the rooftops. Remember how when times were good the developers could guarantee rental prices for the next couple of years? So they could help out if they wanted to and people would remember them as being a trustworthy company instead of this mess. They should just do the honourable thing and let people get their tenants in so the micro-economy in the area at least stands a chance. Anybody been to Byblos, the Lebanese restaurant? Do they do takeaways?

Andy@thewharf said:

Maybe the BBCis the way to go. They will do a good expose on developers and how they so overvalued property and why they are now not speaking to their customers now. Why not? There is nothing to lose.
One another note, I saw that Allied Irish Bank needs about 1.5billion to cover bad debts. They are the lender to Ballymore so perhaps they will be calling in their loans soon....

TinHat said:

And it can't be going down well with the Irish investors. The Evening Standard reported last year that a huge number of the investors in one of the Pan Peninsula towers were Irish, I think it was 50%, although that would have to be verified with ES. Presumably they felt more comfortable investing with with a builder from their own country? How was that loyalty repaid?

Charles said:

Some of the criticism of Ballymore seems unjustified to me. They sold an off-plan block of flats, completed it on time and to the contracted standard. The fact that some of the prices paid approached £1000 per square foot doesn't reflect badly on Ballymore. If buyers were prepared to pay that, then it seems a sensible business decision to sell them at that price. In that respect buyers are responsible for their own poor judgement.
-
However, given the current credit climate I would expect Ballymore to be more understanding about the difficulty faced by many in completing. I would expect Ballymore to agree a scheme with lenders where say 70% of the property value is covered by a first charge to the lender and 20% is covered by a second charge to Ballymore. Unless they find some middle ground with buyers, then Ballymore will be left with a large proportion of the flats in the development.

RM said:

The more people that fail to complete the better. Prices will keep falling through the year and there will be opportunity to pick up apartments -50% original value.

Sorry someones loss is someones gain. Business is business!

Kathryn said:

A sensible suggestion by Charles, let's hope the developers take it.

Some of us have been here before in the last property crash. The biggest mistake you can make is selling at a huge loss, you really need to try and complete. This is a great development and the area is perfect for walking to work. It is so sad that some people are taking such glee in what is going on at present. It is in none of our interests to have a stalled property market.

Good luck all of you, please don't feel suicidal, this will pass and if you can complete you will be glad you did.

simon in london said:

I really hope Ballymore dont budge. Why should they? If the prices of the flats went up over the last two years then no one would be making such a fuss. Too many peple were trying to make a quick buck. Property speculation can and does go wrong. I say tough titties to all those who are losers no. Foxtons website is flooded with them. Im waiting for a drop of another 15% and im there!!

The-Best-Island-in-London said:

SimoninFulham, what a sad little life you must have wishing ill on others, lets hope someone doesn't wish ill upon you or someone in your family.


Now wouldn't it be funny if some of the traders who brought about this god awful mess in the property market had prior knowledge from the US that a crash was on its way to the UK. What would they do to make maximum return on this knowledge?


Hmm, perhaps they would fill their time with spreading negative propoganda about a price crash on every forum that they could with the sole intention of crushing the nation's confidence in the price of their property. Once they'd lowered sellers' faith, they could swoop in and buy at a reduced price.

I like the way you've managed to get 4 negative comments on the Wharf homepage about the property market here. Falling property prices will impact upon everyone regardless of whether they own one or not. Owners(or those about to complete) will do
everything within their power to keep hold of their homes and if that means giving the odd employee the heave-ho then so be it. The sacked employee will then find it hard to keep up with their mortgage,their children will suffer, they'll buy less from shops who will in turn sack employees and so it goes on. It's a simplified demonstration of the Multiplier Effect, the economy will fall like dominoes. Nobody is immune from this situation.

The Wharf needs to show a united front in celebrating the Island rather than denegrating it. It's natural for poorer people to feel jealous of those who have invested and jump up and down with glee if it goes wrong for them. But imagine if it was child or grandchild who had invested, who you feel the same?

simon in fulham said:

Oh dear best Island in london...you are such a drama queen...this isnt about being rich or poor. It's about being sensible with your money - no matter how much or little you have. Spending over £1000 per square foot two years ago WAS crazy fuelled by pure greed. BTW i was at the launch, waited in the rain like eveyone else, listened to the hard core sales pitch and walked away. I didnt buy because it didnt sit right for me when compairing this to other developements not because i didnt have the money.

Right now anyone with some money to invest will wait for the bargain basement prices that are coming. That's life - hard for some, sweet for others. It's not wishing ill on anyone or about jealousy it's purely about the economics of supply and demand and i am in a petty good position right now especially if prices fall another 10 or 20% as predicted (more would be great - check out times-on-line).

Finally, PP is a great developement & in a truely up and coming area. The property market isnt dead - it is great for realistically priced properties and i will buy to live there when the price is right!!


rm said:

I agree with everything you are saying simon. The only thing I would say is hold of till the end of the year. Prices are likely to free fall. I am waiting on 50% discount at least.

You right someones loss is somes gain.

You just need to be smart and on the right side. Good luck.

chandra kalla said:

I have been reading comments on PP for some time. What wonders most is how people (outsiders) are happy for others pain.
The humanity is gone selfish.
I just hope those who are celebrating now are able to hold on to their jobs in future.
This financial crisis can hit any body at any time.
I wish them all best.

Robert Green said:

simon, in saying that you think it would be great if prices drop another 10-20%, you're forgetting that the very rental market you hope to let your apartment to, will equally anticipate a drop in the price of their rent! However the the service charges you'll have to pay to PP for concierge services etc will not fall accordingly! Therefore the market won't be as great as you hope. By Dec. the interest rates will probably have risen too (don't forget the Bank of England are eager to get their money back and flexible rate mortgage rates could rocket.) Potential renters will also have had the chance to save for a deposit (we're not talking about back office people who will be renting unless they share)and might well be focused upon their own mortgage.

captain said:

If someone bought a flat for 500k and it's now worth 300k, is it really such a big deal for Ballymore to allow the buyer to part-complete at 300k and then agree to owe Ballymore the 200k ?

Ballymore can easily put a charge notice on the flat to secure their asset and the buyer could even enter into a contract to repay the 200k over the next few years.

Especially when you consider that Ballymore has built these flats at a cost of between 50k to 100k each MAX. So it's not like they're losing any money. They would simply have to wait a little bit longer to realise ALL of their profits ...

If I ran Ballymore I would want to do everything possible to make this development work. It's in their own best interests to help out their buyers, avoid all this negative press and show that they have faith in the quality of their own development.

I am considering buying in PP but really I'm getting completely put off dealing with Ballymore.

Ballymore do you know how much damage you are doing to your own reputation with this fiasco?

You are not to blame for these problems but can you in good conscience say you are doing the right thing by not supporting your buyers?

The cynic in me says that Ballymore are happy to exploit this situation by:

1. Keeping buyers 20% deposits
2. Suing for damages
3. Re-selling the flat

This seems like a TRIPLE WHAMMY way to make three times more money than they would have by just selling the flats !!!

future Pan pen resident (rentin is fun) said:

My heart bleeds for all the burnt speculators... kind of.. I doubt many of them really wanted to live there... its a hotel ....I saw this ridiculous thing a couple years ago.. the mug punters on the boat buying the dream..the magic dollar signs lighting up their little eyes... I could see their greed... and I was fearful..I knew there would be a crunch and a fire sale and the epicenter would be E14... this was so obvious to many of us. we tried to warn them that browing at 4.5% to rent at 3% was not a good idea... yet still they came with their cheque books and their effortless property equity cash machine... a grand a square foot in the east end... hmm i think someone saw these guys commin. I think its just going to make the cinima leather smell that bit sweeter... the pool feel that much cooler. and the bar that much more exclusive.

Like the 'empty' state building in NY. or regalian homes http://www.free-trade-wharf.co.uk/history.html pan pen will go down in history mostly as a folly of the bubble years where dreams were smashed and fortunes lost... an edifice to the folly of speculation...

but man am I going to enjoy livin there ;)

beleive me nowhere like this will be built for a generation...

to those who beleive that the wharf has a duty to ramp property on the island.. I pity you and your sad pathetic little lives. As I look down from the 48th floor at the cranes building ever more 1 and two bed rabbit hutches i will shed a tear for those who forgot that buildings like pan pen are HOMES not special purpose vehicles for making investors money... irrespective of nominal price the real yeild is the utility benefit of living in the damn thing...

Jobo said:

I greatly sympathise with all those who are having immense difficulty in completing and unforuntately this is a tough time for many.

I am a first time buyer and looking into purchasing in Pan Peninsula. As Simon says, Foxtons is flooded with discounted properties at nearer £600-650/SqFt.
I have a reasonable deposit and am looking at mortgages with 50% LTV, but Foxtons are telling me that no mortgage purchases are being accepted. Does anyone know anything about this?
Apparently people are buying cash at off-plan prices and then being discounted back an agreed amount. This is supposed to be so that the Land Registry doesn't show a huge decline in re-sale valuations.
Good luck to everyone trying to complete.

anon said:

To all those who have lost money by investing in PP, I sympathise with your position- but one should remember that by purchasing such apartments without adequate finances beforehand is a very high risk strategy, and ofcourse can bring large loses.
These apartments are still very profitable for some; I've got two in PP, both of which have appreciated in value (as I've had offers to buy far beyond what I paid) and am looking to azquire a third now that prices have fallen.

la la land said:

Please don't make me laugh ... you have apratments in PP which have gone up in value.... "who are you trying to kid..?" You must work for Ballymore....! These nutters still think studio's are worth £350k...

la la land. said:

oh yeah you mentioned your apartments have gone up in value .. but now you want to buy another beacuse they have gone down in value ... so which is it .. up in value or down ..? nutcase

Peter Miller said:

To Future Pan Peninsula Resident (renting is fun)Whilst PP is nice, I would have thought that if you were so wise and wonderful you'd be directly overlooking the river. By the way it's not just any place in the East End, Canary Wharf is a financial, commercial and journalistic hub.
Demand for property is still increasing - why else would they have to continue adding carriages to the DLR and lengthen the platforms here. Nobody wants to commute when there are beautiful expanses of water and acres of green.

Anonymous said:

In my opinion, people have paid a significant premium to live on the Isle of Dogs.

One of the legacies that will be left behind is the number of ugly buildings with little character. Sure many buidings look nice now, but I doubt many will pass the test of time. A bit like those 1960s council tower blocks begging to be torn down.

Most of the apparments are suited to single or couples. So it does not suit families, so no one will settle down have take roots in the area.

Henry Anderson said:

No. The Isle of Dogs has some outstanding looking developments that HAVE and WILL certainly stand the test of time! The 1902 Chapel House Conservation Area has housed families quite contently for over a hundred years.

Anybody living in an apartment and wanting to stretch their legs can take a stroll along the seemingly endless stretch of riverside or visit the 32 acre Mudchute Park & Farm.

I'd be willing to hazard a bet that the architecture of the West India Quay apartments will manage to withstand another 200 years or so of history. There are many listed buildings & a cobbled residential street remaining here on the Isle of Dogs too.


As for the modern developments, no they're not all to everybody's liking and some of the ones built in the less premium radius of Canary Wharf are ugly and poorly designed with a lower price to match. Some people like visually striking buildings that break from tradition so long as the design is good. In 'London's Docklands' by Williamson & Pevsner, there is enough architecture of merit to warrant a whole book dedicated to the Isle of Dogs.


Of course, the best designed developments are by the River Thames. Why? The architect wants to show case his skills to everybody who travels by and get maximum exposure! The riverside apartments are sold at a premium because they have stellar views of London landmarks and because they're more of a rarity. Tenants like their building to look different from the others because people always say 'Which is your building, I'll look out for it when I'm on the River!'


I must say that it's poorly informed to compare modern developments with 60's built towerblocks because the best developments are gated with secure parking, slick gyms, beautiful gardens and 24hr security, concierges & cleaning staff. There really is no comparison. Why do think the service charges are so high?


It's obvious why there's so many apartments here. Because the majority of workers of are in their 20s-early 40s. Only at this age can you dedicate your energy to your career. Like any city, the companies want to recruit the best and most energetic! You want to work hard & play hard, then flop into bed nearby! Travelling expends too much time and you certainly don't want to mow the lawn or renovate a house because you're too dog tired. By the time you have a family, you've probably attained a level of income to afford another property too (don't forget £100k is the average here)you don't have to work quite so hard & your riverside apartment's your pied-a-terre for the week whilst at the weekend you'll go to your country house to be with your family. Same as Manhattan, week there, weekend in the Hamptons. All cities are the same - they attract the most successful and in turn they attract good shops & restaurants and developments.

Manterik said:

For those who signed a contract to buy in Pan Peninsula you need to stop whining and expecting sympathy from people, get off your butts and get the finance sorted out.

No one forced these people to sign the contracts and in doing so they agreed to purchase at a price. Had prices doubled since 2007 they would not be whining and forming support groups.

I have no sympathy for the feckless and the stupid. The Developers should pursue the Buyers if they breach their contract. It is not fair on those who have completed at the asking price if the developer drops the price or lets the feckless Buyers get away with it.

Anonymous said:

Manterik, you are correct 100%, apart from using the word 'feckless' as I would have used another word beginning with F and having a CK in the middle to describe many of them instead.

There is a lot of talk about Ballymore ignoring purchasers. I have called twice this week and once got through to the person 1st try and the second time left a message and got called back. I asked for a discount and was politely told 'no'. I know of others who have had an appointment with the senior director at Ballymore who also told them 'no deals'. What part of 'no' don't the cry babies understand? You ask for something and it is refused is a discussion! The fact is that the cry babies don't want to take 'no' for an answer and think that they have the right to insist that Ballymore give them something for nothing. Pathetic.

I think the moaning investors involved in this pity party need to either post with honesty or not post at all because all they are doing is damaging the property value for us smarter buyers.

James Turner said:

im a developer myself and its a well known fact that ballymore and all their developments are bust. I was offered stock at the pp development by a leading london agent at 50% discount to rics valuations !

June said:

I would like advise from any experienced buyers in Canary Wharf
Whether buying a 350sft unit at PP at 260k is a
Good price to pay for in Jan 2011? Are there still many units unoccupied because of the settlement issue? The last posting on this site was Aug 2009. Can someone advise me. There are so many apartment bldg in Canary Wharf and my budget is limited to 260k for a nice 1 bedroom unit.

adamgo said:

As you may know, the Irish developers of Pan Peninsula (Ballymore) are in serious financial difficulties and are effectively bankrupt having been subsumed into the Irish "bad bank", NAMA. It has recently been publicised that Ballymore are on a sales trip to India trying to persuade wealthy Indians to buy apartments in Pan Peninsula. This is unusual because PP was allegedly 100% sold off-plan. I can only assume that a proportion of the off-plan buyers have been unable to complete on their contracts hence the developers trying to attract new buyers to take over the incomplete contracts. In my opinion, the studio apartments in PP are singularly unattractive, poorly designed and overpriced. In addition the Management Charges (£3,000 pa) are very high. There are better deals to be had in the vicinity and you could probably acquire a 1 bed apartment in another development with more square footage, lower service charges and better quality of life. If you are genuinely committed to PP, I believe that the 1 and 2 bed apartments are better designed and arranged than the tiny 350sq ft studios currently on offer although you may need to find at least another 60-80K to purchase one.

Marine Side said:

@June, flats with balconies overlooking the Thames with views of the Wheel, Shard, Tower Bridge are the best investments as they are more scarce and hold their attraction to international buyers. Other flats may have peripheral views of the river and these landmarks but there is nothing like living on top of the Thames. Open the window and you can always hear the sound of the waves lapping the shore throughout the year. When there are fireworks on the Southbank, you can watch them from the window. Sometimes there are re-enactments of Royal Tudor Processions you can watch from the window, occasionally when the waves form large ripples, a fog horn sounds and the Thames is bare, you know that a large cruise liner is about to arrive, residents stand on their balconies to watch the arrival. Late at night, you can watch the River Police Boat riding the waves and early Saturday morning, the cox of the rowers commands them to "Hurry up guys, they're gaining pace!" The sounds and sights of living on the Thames in one of the greatest capitals of the world is something you or your tenants will never forget.
I can also faithfully reassure you that there is never any odour coming from the river at all.Find the extra money and invest in a riverside flat.

Anon said:

Really do not understand why you would want to consider buying a flat with high service charges. Freehold properties are the best option.

Marine Side said:

Because any flat worth living in will be leasehold around here. Service charges ensure the resident is kept safe with concierges, cctv, secure parking and gates that keep those annoying loitering 'innits' and their noise pollution, at a distance. Without concierges, residents would have to queue at the local sorting office to collect undelivered parcels and take time off to wait for delivery men. They also ensure that a development is a calm and pleasant community to live in. Leasehold means service charges and those in turn ensure a clean, safe, well landscaped environment and often include gym membership too. Vigilent leaseholders should ensure that the charges do not become excessive by questioning their management company regularly.

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