Pan Peninsula buyers struggle to pay for dream homes

I am disgusted with the comment from Ballymore. First and foremost, I have been trying to deal with them, letting them know of completion difficulties and they have never been interested. They just quoted their standard contract back at me, telling me that if I do not complete they will sue me.

Now in this paper they say they have a special department to help people who are finding it difficult to complete? Even members of the Pan Peninsula Buyers Association have no idea about this department as no one has been told. It simply does NOT exist.

There are also many more than 10% who can not complete. Out of the current completions, only about 15% have actually completed. The rest of the completions are coming up until October and many buyers are simply not aware of the situation as they have not yet looked into it.

The contracts have been frustrated due to the unforseen global economic crisis, and yet Ballymore are not interested in discussing options on moving forward. I want to complete but they just want to sue me. I already have the letters where they have told me that they will not give me any more time to complete, that they will keep my deposit and will start proceedings to sue me for the remainder.

The article should have touched on the large number of people who can not complete and want to discuss with Ballymore on various options to move forward and complete yet Ballymore are not even wanting to discuss. Has anyone ever tried calling the Management Suite? No one ever picks up the phone (They may do after they see this comment), no one ever calls back afetr you leave a message and it is really hard for surveyors to make appointments.

I'm sorry, but Ballymore are not relaying the correct facts in this article.

I live at Pan Peninsula and have had none of the problems the first poster claims to have had. My valuation was not lower than my purchase price and the Ballymore completions team were always available to talk to me.

Is D.Patel sure they have the correct building?

I have to disagree with the message posted by Rajesh.

I have purchased a studio directly from Ballymore on the launch day back in November 2005. From that time I have had very little communication from them since.

My current position is that I do want to complete on my development and move in as soon as I can, but I am finding it very difficult to do this when my valuation is down by nearly 20%.

Rather than listening to my problem and helping me find a solution to complete, I am receiving threatening legal letters from Ballymore's solicitors to complete or else.

I've been trying to call Ballymore directly but no body seem to pick my calls.

I really did not know who to turn to until I came across Pan Peninsula Buyers Association and discovered that in fact I am not in the minority and most the buyers are experiencing the same problem as me.

The reality is that comments made by the likes of Rajesh are completely baseless and the truth is closer to what had been outlined in this article and comments from D Patel.

I can only talk from my own experience and I find it regretable that others are suggesting I am lying. I don't for one minute believe everybody had as good a valuation as me, but then I am not attempting to speak for others, only myself. I would never make claims on behalf of "most of the buyers" as I have nothing to substantiate such a claim. Does Mr O'Neill?

I agree with Mr O'Neill and D Patel. I am due to complete and unable to do so due to my valuation coming in at 20% below purchase price. I've not been given any options from Ballymore, simply a solicitor's letter reiterating their position (i.e. no help as yet).

I know - because I have met over 60 purchasers in the UK face to face - that this is a huge problem for UK based buyers.

At the last count (over 2 or 3 weeks ago) the PPBA had over 170 members representing 44% of apartments (http://www.panpeninsula.org/).

I suspect that there are many purchasers in Ireland in the same position that will add substantially to those numbers.

I'm sure Ballymore will make some attempt to help purchasers under stress and look forward to working with them to find an amicable resolution.

Rajesh P: Yes, I certainly have the correct building. I have again today tried to contact the Pan Peninsula management suite, have left messages asking to be contacted yet I have heard nothing back. I even tried calling Mr AH (acting for Ballymore on completions) directly on his mobile number - yet it gets picked up by some lady now who denies any knowledge of Mr AH. This is funny because it is a number that many other purchasers have informed who have spoken to Mr AH on that particular number... as recently as yesterday.

Further, Mr O'Neill is able to substantiate his claim because I have met him at a PPBA meeting along with numerous other buyers who are having difficulty in completing and are getting the 'head in the sand' reaction from Ballymore.

Funny thing is, out of the miniscule number of purchasers who have completed their purchase in PP (I do know a large number of that miniscule amount), you are the only one who has had no problems with the completions.

C3PO: I hope you are right in your final paragraph, however with the experience I have had, I hold no hope whatsoever. Unless Ballymore actually become pro-active and start discussing with purchasers to help them complete rather than suing them, I really do not hold much hope.

So Ballymore, are you willing to take your head out of the sand and start discussing? Oh I would love to know where this 'non-existant' special department is that you mention in the article.

"less than 10 per cent of purchasers finding difficulty finding finance to complete"...ABSOLUTE TRIPE! There are significantly greater numbers than that - myself included. The groundswell of frustration amongst the purchasers, appalled the manner in which Ballyomore is conducting itself in this whole process, has now reached fever pitch.

"we have set up a special department to help them" "...ABSOLUTE TRIPE! Has anyone tried ringing the mangagement suite recently - no one picks up and, moreover, no returns messages. Ballymores bullish statements above are not borne out in the facts - they do not even have the good grace to talk to you (because its far easier to duck the issue, rather than confront upset purchasers who might be asking difficult questions eh?!). Ballymore were quick enough to pick up the phone when you were buying into the scheme...

I bought a two bed when the project was launched in 2005. Unfortunately the recent bank valuation was approx. 15% down on the original price, and I have had to scrap and borrow to make up the difference - to allow me to complete. Fortunately HSBC were able to provide a 75% mortgage.

I intend to complete, as it honours the contract that was signed - even if I have to borrow from my family / friends. I did ask for a reduction from Ballymore, given market conditions, but this was turned down - which is their right.

I often think that if the prices of property went up over the period, Ballymore would not be asking us buyers to pay a higher price. Thus is it really fair for people to try and force a price reduction because our property bets went wrong?

Its a tough reality unfortunately.

TM: I take your point about 'if the prices of property went up', however you must understand that Ballymore took 20% deposit from everyone - sort of "You scratch my back and I will scratch yours".. so we give them 20% deposit and in return we enjoy any price rises in the property value.

In the current Global Downturn in the Economy, the contracts have been frustrated and thus can not be completed. You are one of the lucky few who has been able to gain a mortgage. I have tried with all the HBOS products (even their subsidiaries like Birmingham Midshires) who even as recently as yesterday informed me that they have withdrawn all mortgage products for Pan Peninsula. Cheltenham and Gloucester are the same. Wherever I turn there seem to be no mortgages available.

The point is not one of 'tough luck' but one where I wish to come to a mutually amicable and mutually beneficial solution with Ballymore. However I still am unable to get hold of them and they are ignoring my letters.

If this is how Ballymore treat their customers prior to completion, I dread to think how bad they will be to deal with once they have had all the money on completion. It does not bode well and I personally will never deal with them ever again.

Whilst I really sympathise with those affected, I don't see how D Patel's argument of frustration of contract will hold up. Unless there is something in the contract that gives buyers the express right for a revaluation at completion, I can't see what comeback you have. The fact of a global recession is nothing on its own.

I have been keeping an eye on this discussion for a few days now and really sympathise with those affected. I completed under duress. Ballymore were not at all helpful and my completion period was extremely stressful with no help at all from Ballymore. So I am surprised that a couple of people here say that they had no issues whatsoever with Ballymore. Although it is too late for me, I would urge those who are finding difficulties in completing on their PP purchase to ditch their Ballymore recommended solicitors and gain good legal advice. My solicitor friend who is a property lawyer also mentioned frustration of contract to me and that was not the first time I had heard of it in the case of Pan Peninsula (although it was too late for m by the time I had heard this).

You sign a contract to purchase a property based on your ability to provide - for example -a 25% deposit and the take out a mortgage of 75%.

At the time of signing you are able to take out a mortgage like this with no problem.

An event happens - after you sign the contract -which you could not have forseen.

This event means that mortgages are no longer available even though your own circumstances have not changed.

It is now physically impossible for you to complete on the property.

Isn't that a Frustrated Contract?

Rajesh Patel: Are you willing to share who you secured your mortgage with? Which solicitor did you use? When did you complete? Thanks, HT

What banks are doing morgages and what LTV's are available for Pan Pen.

Why don't all the disgruntled buyers form their own website? The Pan Peninsula website itself is stating that all apartments have been sold and yet people on here are saying that they can't complete! There must a mortgage company who Ballymore can contract to help out buyers en masse.
Do the surveyors performing the valuations realise the beauty & expense of the interior design & fittings? Perhaps it's the location that is the problem? All I ever hear is that tenants want to live overlooking the Thames and can see the Wheel from their balcony.

Just read the article again. There is a website and forum for disgruntled buyers at the end of the article.

To give it some more publicity it's

PANPENINSULA.ORG !!!!

Good luck to everyone.

Sadly, a contract is not frustrated simply because it is more expensive to perform....

... I forgot to add that the purchasers here are not saying the contract is frustrated because it is more expensive to perform. Instead, and reading the comments again, the contract is actually frustrated due to valid reasons. The contract simply can not be performed because it i frustrated. I understand where the other purchasers are coming from now.

I would like to say i purchased a property off Ballymore at Ontario Tower and was very pleased with the price and the product. I feel very lucky that i was late to the 'party' with Pan Pen as when i went to look to buy one they had all been sold. Is it not possible for Ballymore to do what i have read in the American Property books and to offer Owner Financing for all or even just part of the shortfall?

Reality??

Some nut charged £40k on a credit card to complete. A guy who has been made redundant has borrowed money for every tom dick and harry to complete. Has the world gone made??
If you cannot afford it now you’re not going to afford in for the next 12 months.

Cut your losses and sell or just forfeit your deposit if you can. Hope Ballymore doesn’t sue you for more money. Get good legal advice.
The publicity this is getting no bank is going to lend for this project if it knows buyers are struggling.

The valuations are just going to keep coming down.

All Ballymore need to do is give a flat rate of 10-15% discount and the completion rate will soar....... if However they dwell on their decision, this could be the end of Ballymore. I just can't see how they can have so much liquidity to pay or their loans.

Act know or be gone forever.

All Ballymore need to do is give a flat rate of 10-15% discount and the completion rate will soar....... if However they dwell on their decision, this could be the end of Ballymore. I just can't see how they can have so much liquidity to pay or their loans.

Act now or be gone forever.

To all those who are saying we should cut our losses and forfeit the deposit, unfortunately it is not that easy.

Forfeiting the deposit is one thing, however Ballymore are already claiming the deposits from those who have failed to complete. However, they are now issuing legal proceedings for the remainder.

So what are the buyers supposed to do? Borrow whereever they may do or go through the courts and be taken to the cleaners?

I find it very surprising that Ballymore are not budging an inch. This so called 'special department' that is supposed to help those that are having difficulties does not exist. I have called Ballymore day in and day out. First no one picks up the phone so I leave a message. Then if someone does happen to pick up the phone they just take a message for someone to call me back.

As I am in the situation where it is difficult for me to complete and I have already gone past the completion date, I need to get this resolved amicably and soon. However, 2 weeks of trying to get hold of Ballymore and nothing. It is as though they actually want to sue the pants off me. :-(

Its all going to end in tears for both parties. I feel like crying.

Sadly I can't see Ballymore back down on this as a contract is a contract.

I did look at the show apartment some time ago when the remaining 2 beds were almost 1,000 a sq ft (which made me laugh at the time). On the basis the higher end wharf stock is about 500-600a sq ft I bought a better priced place.

I am getting badgered by an agent with 40 pan pen flats for sale at the moment - no idea who is going to buy all these if the block has a mortgage black list.

I know of people waiting to buy 10 or 20 in a job lot when they are about 400 a sq ft - which will be later this year.

I went past the management office today (Sunday) at 12 noon and despite it being advertised as open it was in darkness.

Wharf Lad

£400 pre square foot this year sounds unlikely - I assume you are attempting to wind up those who are about to complete. What price per square foot is currently trading for those that have recently bought or sold off-plan in pan peninsula?

It's interesting that buyers are still buying at West India Quay, where the number of flats is limited and the number for sale is small. The same applies at Canary Riverside.

Like Wharf lad, I looked at Pan Peninsula when prices were close to £1000sqft. I ended up getting a 1500sqft on a high level at a better building in a better location (west India Quay)for around £550sqft.

The probblem with Pan Peninsula is that there are too many flats and loads more being built all around it. I think based on the fact that King Sturge have around 40-50 andm ore on the way to sell, that £400-500 a sqft is likely. A number of banks have blacklisted the building so only cash buers or those with big deposits will be able to buy. They will also be in a strong position as there are so many flats for sale.

Ballymore are also planning to build this around Pan Peninsula:

http://www.oraclegroup.com/News-and-Events/News/Ballymore-and-Oracles-1bn-Docklands-tower/

I bet they didn't mention that to buyers!

It's a joke that another large tower is going up there when they can't sell the apartments that they are currently finishing! I see the Icon building also has about 40 on the market also pre-completion.

Although the new proposed tower looks nicer than pan pen does.

I still stand by my 400-500 sq ft forecast for the Millharbour area - too much supply with limited demand = lower prices. It's simple economics.

Wharf Lad

New tower will have a hotel inside managed by a 5* operator. So will be better than Pan Peninsula.

Anyone have any money left to buy into this dream :)

sounds like there are some very clever people out there .... 1000sq or is 400-500sq ... its all a load of rubbish if you ask me .... the truth is Ballymore are finished.... Too greedy too quick.....

I agree with the above post. But you know people will start buying this outstanding development in a few years time - when they have more money than sense. :)

For now its toast!

Patel, you will have better returns opening up a corner shop than investing in this development.

lol.... corner shop in pan peninsula... for the poor residents.... ahhhhhh

I don't feel sorry for the investors at all as they were stupid enough to pay ridulous prices for something that wasn't built yet. Ballymore were smart enough to see there were dumb mugs out there prepared to pay a huge deposit so they could keep their borrowing down to construct the development and then use their money to build the disgusting development across the harbour. Ballymore are greedy and because of stupid people who believed in the marketing hype (helped by the marketing suite) meant that developers thought they could get away with selling box apartments that nobody really wants to live in. The land where London arena use to be, could have been better used to build HOUSES, homes for people to grow into and raise FAMILIES. Also, have people forgotten the stupid service charge to run such a building- and at that SIZE!!! I doubt Ballymore will be able to afford the costs if no one completes. Interesting times to see if this becomes the UKs first high-rise crack-den ghetto with luxury trimmings!

With regards to

Andy@thewharf comment:

"Ballymore are also planning to build this around Pan Peninsula:

http://www.oraclegroup.com/News-and-Events/News/Ballymore-and-Oracles-1bn-Docklands-tower/

I bet they didn't mention that to buyers!"

THANK GOODNESS FOR THE CREDIT CRUNCH!!!

I think the only way forward for these large developments is for them to sell the excess - where the original buyer cannot complete - to a housing association for key workers. Although a housing association may turn some down as they are such small units.

The days of greed and excess are over I hope.

I agree the ex-arena site looks awful.

Wharf Lad

I agree that the excess stock at Pan Peninsula/Icon etc should be sold to a housing association for key workers. Tower Hamlets needs teachers and other key workers rather than empty properties.

Why doesn't The Wharf start a campaign. I have noticed there has been no follow up. HAs Ballymore put pressure on The Wharf?

New times call for new measures.

The problem with using 'key workers' to fill excess flats is that they often AREN'T those that are key to society. Councils don't check the applications thoroughly enough and rather than having teachers or nurses in these flats, who DO add a valuable contribution to society, the flats end up being given to those with a very loose association with jobs that are essential to the overall welfare of society - perhaps cleaners. The people who are used to fill these flats need to be educated to at least degree standard (and that's not difficult by today's standards) with backfround references stringently checked by Tower Hamlets council or the consequence will be a degenerate Pan Pensinsula. Witness other affluent developments where the landlords would rather be assured of a lower rent by filling their flats with council tenants than have rental voids - this is fine if the tenants act with decorum - unfortunately some/many of them don't. Waynetta Slob ends up being your neighbour, shouting at her out-of-control, anti-social 'kiddies' like a fishwife at all hours with music blaring out of her windows. Gradually the lifts become graffitied, drug dealers become lured by the luxury of the development and suddenly burglaries and muggings occur from within.
As an example of this, the development next to Tesco Metro (Millharbour) has some nefarious characters shopping there - think Vicky Pollard - it's no surprise they can barely string a sentence together when they fill their baskets with plasticized food, crisps 'n' fags. Strange that they retreat to the decent looking private development next door. Can it only be coincidence but the glass forefront of that Tesco was recently smashed? The private tenants and investors must be thrilled. In my opinion, key workers should only be given an apartment in P.Peninsula by the council if their contribution to society can be proven -ie: educating or saving the lives of others for the greater good of society. In honesty, I'm undecided whether even key workers should be entitled to apartments of this worth. Many investors have sacrificed, toiled and saved for years to be able to afford their dream apartment and it may well be galling to see somebody else being awarded a similar apartment regardless of their contribution to society.

Unfortunately you will have no control over who lives next door to you. Most of the flats will be buy to let. No doubt a big investor will buy 50 for a huge discount, then discount rents. Those who bought at ful price won't be able to compete and will end up subsidising their flats greatly. Around Millharbour is tenant heaven. Low demand and huge number of flats. The housing association solution may not be the worst idea...

Key housing will usually be separate from the rest of a private development.
With housing assocations, not every landlord wants to let to them. Won't the service charges for Pan Peninsula be very high? Who pays for them? The housing assocation or the landlord? Everyone's pulling in their belts and it all looks very excessive.

Investors will be screwed. Firstly the value of the property has nosedived (more so at Pan Peninsula than elsewhere as the originaly Ballymore asking prices were very excessive. Secondly there will be hundreds of flats to rent at once, and many more in all the building around Pan Peninsula (Icon, Landmark etc) so rental values will plunge as people fight for tenants. Thirdly service charges will be high and these will come from the investors' own pockets as the rent won't cover the mortgage never mind the service charges.

Investors will be screwed. Firstly the value of the property has nosedived (more so at Pan Peninsula than elsewhere as the originaly Ballymore asking prices were very excessive. Secondly there will be hundreds of flats to rent at once, and many more in all the building around Pan Peninsula (Icon, Landmark etc) so rental values will plunge as people fight for tenants. Thirdly service charges will be high and these will come from the investors' own pockets as the rent won't cover the mortgage never mind the service charges.

I'll give it 9 months before we start seeing some real bargain basement priced apartments.
I doubt any investor who bought early and completed is going to be able to hold on to this investment for that long before going for broke.

Could these apartments be used and marketed as hotel rooms to maximise yield? Surely a development with all these facilities including a restaurant, cinema etc could also serve as a hotel couldn't it?

I really hope Ballymore dont budge. Why should they? If the prices of the flats went up over the last two years then no one would be making such a fuss. Too many peple were trying to make a quick buck. Property speculation can and does go wrong. I say tough titties to all those who are losers no. Foxtons website is flooded with them. Im waiting for a drop of another 15% and im there!!

Simon, I wonder if you've discovered what the service charges are?

It could easily have been anyone. Between 1998-2000, prices on some apartments on the Island doubled and from there on there was a steady rise.

Whilst I think that people should complete, I think there should be some assistance, that they later repay.

It's does the microeconomy here no good to keep on wishing for falls in prices. I certainly won't be dropping the price of my apartment for anyone.

The buyers would need to get legal advise about this situation, because it would be common not just now but over several decades. There may be some precedent in law to assist buyers who are in the difficult situation of paying for a property during the boom, but them unable to pay during the bust.

If there is no legal way out, the buyers will just have to accept that this is one of the risk of buying off the plan - prices don't always go up.

Talking of service charges. I have just heard from Ballymore that the PPBA are pushing for them to get a full cinema license that allows for the showing of films at the same time they are released to public cinemas!!!

Do the numpties on the PPBA know what this will do to our service charges? It will triple them at least. Maybe the PPBA need to import someone with a fully functioning brain and an IQ that's higher than their shoe size to advise them before they get us all clobbered with an extra 10 to 15 grand a year.

Ridiculous. It would be more sensible for PP to do what some hotels in Central London do and have private viewings for the public. You pay for a meal and then go and watch a film in the private screening room the 1st Sunday of the month (or whatever day). Obviously you pay top whack for the pleasure of sitting in comfortable leather seats in an intimate, softly lit setting away from the popcorn munching, phone texting 'innit' hoi polloi.
The films aren't new but usuallly art house, cult films.
PP would accrue further revenue without having to increase service charges that way.

I guess there is one born every minute. Suckers to a man and woman who bought here. People bought to make a quick buck due to their own greed. You guys signed a contract you must have intended to be bound by it so you cannot be surprised when it is quoted back to you.

SUCKERS.

Can we all, who are stuggling to complete, take some concrete action, like meeting up and have a good law firm to represent the asssociation, negotiate with Ballymore so that our collective voices make more of an impact.

Good morning. The nice thing about egotists is that they don't talk about other people. Help me! Help to find sites on the: Acai berry pills. I found only this - acai berry supplements. And, unfortunately for us, the same has been true with acai. Site owners are not responsible for the information posted on this website. Thank you very much :rolleyes:. Tab from Liechtenstein.

Tab, your post reads like goobledegook. If you don't know what that word means, look it up in the Oxford English Dictionary! As this is a newspaper printed in English, do try and learn to use the correct grammar and sentence structure for this country.

The curative properties of purple berries and the sites run by their marketers have little to do with property and the loss of deposits.

I believe that the messages from Tab and Rajesh P are just spam messages put by Ballymore employees so no one takes seriously the complaints against them. thats what dodgy companies do

@notoballymore - did it take 13 months of detailed analysis to come to this conclusion?

what happened to all those people who wanted to buy PP properties at pea nut prices ... from what I can see studios are still going for 200k people where predicting 100k....

Hi to those who invested in this development. I invested in what sounds like a similar development in Birmingham, The Cube. We set up a private Facebook Group and contacted as many investors as we could to join - we are in touch with 50 investors now. We can now discuss our concerns in private. To my knowledge no one has yet completed! The other advantage of joining the group is that we are now sharing the cost of litigation.

I'm thinking it would be a good idea for us to keep in contact with each others developments, Why knows we may be able to set some kind of presedence. Is there a head of your group we could make contact with?

For those of you who are calling people like me SUCKERS. Please bear in mind this had been a trusted way for years to provide an investment for your future. We're not all big investors with loads of cash. I invested in the hope it would serve as a pension for my future instead of investing in the banks.